As Ireland dies as a sovereign nation and we, the people of Britain have to cough up to bailout their European misadventure, we thought we'd read
the House of Commons debate on the bailout - so you don't need to.
We've given you the potted highlights. And we've taken the opportunity to play Statler and Waldorf to the elected village idiots of Westminster who still won't let us have our country back.
Over to dumb, dumber and the treacherous...
(though there are one or two right-minded patriots in this debate, so apologies for tarring all with the same brush).
Mr David Blunkett (Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough) (Lab): I wonder whether the Chancellor would help me with a conundrum that the people of Sheffield will no doubt be mulling over tonight. Why, in raising the money for the bilateral loan for the Irish Republic, would it not be possible to help another friend in need by adding a simple £100 million to the loan and helping Sheffield Forgemasters, which after all will repay the loan, just like the Irish will?
Mr Osborne: What I am proposing is a bilateral loan to another sovereign nation as part of an international package.
We say: Sovereign nation? Ireland? We'll be the judge of that!
Mr Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West) (Lab/Co-op): Will the Chancellor be a little more clear about whether he is ruling out providing financial support in future to Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy or any other country in the eurozone? Yes or no?
Mr Osborne: It would not be particularly responsible of me to speculate on any other country at this time.
We say: In other words, watch this space - we're f**ked and we will have to keep on coughing up.
Mr Douglas Carswell (Clacton) (Con): We might be outside the euro as a currency union, but does the small print of the Lisbon treaty not in effect make us, as we are discovering, members of the euro as a debt union? Notwithstanding protocol 15, article 122 of the Lisbon treaty means that we pay. Will not that mean enormous non-discretionary liabilities as and when other eurozone countries seek similar bail-outs?
Mr Osborne: As I said in reply to earlier questions, we entered into certain commitments about the mechanism that I did not support at the time; I have made that clear. I was an opponent of the Lisbon treaty, as were many hon. Members. However, I have to deal with the world as I find it today, and that is a world in which Ireland's economic situation is unsustainable. One of the reasons for choosing to offer a bilateral loan is precisely so that this Parliament, including my hon. Friend, can have a view and a vote on it, and we can account for that to our constituents.
We say: Cut the cock-waffle. The answer to Douglas' question that you were looking for was "yes". We're permanently lumbered because of the forty years of treason and conspiracy against us, committed by the majority of tossers of all hues who sit of the benches at Westminster.
Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con): I recognise that my right hon. Friend is dealing with some very serious and potentially disastrous economic circumstances, but when I say, "I told you so", it is not just about staying out of the euro; I am saying, "I told you we shouldn't have ratified the Maastricht treaty."
[Laughter.] They are guilty over on the Opposition Benches, too. Will my right hon. Friend be a little clearer? Is he saying that unless we are fully extricated from any potential liability for other eurozone members through the European Union, there will be no treaty change?
Mr Osborne: I am not proposing to take Britain out of the Maastricht treaty, despite my hon. Friend's request. I know that will come as a bit of a disappointment.
We say: A disappointment - not just for Mr. Jenkin - but for the people of Britain. Remember us, Osborne? And how are those yachts on Corfu?
Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): On reflection, does the Chancellor believe that our Irish friends might have been better off remaining faithful to sterling rather than eloping with the more flighty euro, and does a warm welcome await our friends if and when they return?
Mr Osborne: I am a believer in national sovereignty, so I do not propose to tell other countries what they should do with their currencies. I would just make this observation, since this has been a debate I have heard in recent years: Ireland has all its sovereign debt denominated in euros.
We say: Great question, non-answer. Apart from the bit about him being a believer in national sovereignty. Would that be the people's sovereignty, Mr. Osborne? And if so, when do we get a say on any of these European Empire issues?
Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab): Ultimately, the bail-out will work only if Ireland can retain its competitiveness. Traditional International Monetary Fund packages always include reducing public spending, increasing tax rates and devaluing the currency. The third element, which is essential for Ireland's recovery, is missing. What makes the Chancellor believe the bail-out will work under those conditions?
Mr Osborne: If it is not possible to devalue the currency, there is a more difficult route, which is to try to enforce competitiveness through, for example, wage cuts, and that, of course, is part of the Irish package. It does make things more difficult, but, as I say, those of us who argued against Britain joining the euro made all these arguments at the time. That makes for a very good discussion, but at a very theoretical level given the very practical immediate challenges we face in Ireland.
We say: If any of our Irish friends are reading, you read it there - our Chancellor thinks you're definitely f**ked. We told you to vote 'no' a second time. Instead, you fell for the con. And now you're f**ked, permanently. Hey ho.
Joseph Johnson (Orpington) (Con): Could the Chancellor say whether he thinks Ireland's move to tap international financial assistance will reduce or increase the risk of contagion to other euro-area sovereigns and their banking systems? What assessment has he made of the risk of countries such as Portugal, Italy and Spain to the UK?
Mr Osborne: I hope my hon. Friend will allow me not to engage in speculation about any other country at the moment. The package today shows the willingness of the international community, the IMF and so on to help countries that get themselves into trouble, whether they are in Europe or anywhere else in the world.
We say: Sub-text... Osborne, deep down inside, knows the entire lot are f**ked, perhaps?
Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): Bearing in mind that the Treasury will itself have to borrow the billions of pounds that it proposes to lend to the Irish Government, will the Chancellor reassure the House that the interest rate it charges the Irish Government will be substantially higher than the rate we must pay?
Mr Osborne: The terms and conditions of the loan are still to be decided, and as I said, they will be brought to the House of Commons. However, to make a general observation, we are seeking not to make a buck, but to help our friend.
We say: So, there is the possibility that this bailout will end up in wealth redistribution from Britain, to Ireland, onto and back to the global banking cartels. We're being ripped off - raped and pillaged - by the bankers and their political puppets. Again. Wonder if Osborne has ever been spotted cavorting on yachts in Corfu with Labour euroslime Peter Mandelson and the odd Rothschild..?
Mark Reckless (Rochester and Strood) (Con): Is not the fundamental problem that Ireland has the wrong interest rate and the wrong exchange rate, and that Irish politicians made a fundamental mistake by joining the euro? Does the Chancellor agree that we must stand and support Ireland, and that should Ireland seek a return to sterling, it must have a seat on the Monetary Policy Committee?
Mr Osborne: The first time I met my hon. Friend was when we were both at university together, and he gave a speech about exchange rates and the European exchange rate mechanism. He was absolutely right in his prediction of what would happen shortly thereafter, so it is good to hear him talk about exchange rates here in the House of Commons. I would make this observation: decisions on people's currencies must, as I am sure he would agree, be decisions for the nation state involved. I have made the observation-just because there has been some interesting speculation about this-that much of Ireland's sovereign debt is denominated in euros, which would remain whatever its currency was.
We say: The last sentence is interesting and food for thought. And with that in mind... Ireland... you're f**ked.
John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab): Will the Chancellor now answer the question that the hon. Member for Harwich and North Essex (Mr Jenkin) asked? Does he believe, as I do, that when British Ministers signed up to Maastricht and the growth and stability pact, they made a mistake?
Mr Osborne: To be honest, the real mistake was that countries did not pursue the policies recommended in the growth and stability pact, which was to keep control of their public finances. Year after year during the past decade, the UK was regularly warned that its deficit was growing and that it was not doing enough to deal with it. If we had listened-not necessarily to the European Commission, but to all the other people in the world who were pointing that out-we would have been in a bit better shape than we were when this Government came to office.
We say: What do we have to do to get Osborne to talk about the Maastricht Treaty? Ask him a third time, perhaps?
Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con): Does my right hon. Friend agree that one of the few redeeming features of the Labour party when in government was that it failed to take us into the eurozone? Does he understand, as I do, that the Labour party's policy remains that we should work towards the eurozone? As the Leader of the Opposition is changing his policies, what advice can he offer?
Mr Osborne: Let me speak for Government policy. We will not join the euro. I believe that the Opposition's official policy is to join the euro, but perhaps that will be discussed by their policy groups over the next two years.
We say: 'We will not join the euro' sounds pretty emphatic. Wonder if anyone will get up and ask him about a global currency and cashless society which some conspiracy spotters think is what this is really all about...
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See also:
John Redwood -
The Irish bail out gets off to a bad start
